"Archie remarks, “I’ve been living in this house with you for over ten years….”" >>I am always surprised at how often Archie mentions how long he's lived with Wolfe, not only in narration but in his 'real life'. It really seems (to me) to belie his tough, Midwest masculine image--the fact that he always mentions 'living with you in this house' instead of something less personal, like 'working for you' etc leads me to think this.
"Nero Wolfe gets a lot of credit for his amazing vocabulary, but it must’ve rubbed off on Archie as well. Archie Goodwin is confident and cocky, especially with Wolfe complimenting his satisfactory performance at least twice in this story, and brash and sarcastic. While his language is more colorful and slangy than Wolfe’s, he uses his fair share of $20 words too."
>>I always find it interesting how Archie can pull out a really impressive metaphor or word. It makes you wonder just how much he actually knows--in one early book I think he mentions laying on a couch downstairs and reading, but later on does not mention this. I almost wonder if he's censoring himself after the first few books. I also find it interesting that it's so central to his identity as a person that he always mentions what his leather case (from Wolfe) is, and how it's so fancy. You would think that type of 'fancy' gift would embarrass him, or that he would be embarrassed showing others that Wolfe gave him it and he likes it, but how Archie acts always defys my expectations.
In this vein I am always shocked that Wolfe and Archie are so progressive, actually. I see a lack of sexism and racism as opposed to other literature and movies from the early era (30s-40s etc). I think maybe that's part of Archie's desire to reassure the reader and himself that he's a 'real' man, because overt/cruel sexism/racism/violence isn't really too much a part of how he expresses himself. I've seen most Wolfeans (if that's the word) say that Archie's a thug, especially early on, but I've never felt this way. I personally think the different in cultural and temporal milieu is simply different from our own. Now if Archie lived today I think he would act progressively for our time period, but in his own period I see him as an exemplar man.
I think Stout set him up to be one, actually. I think many of the other characters' behaviors often end up showing Archie in a good light, ie. Orrie's womanizing, Johnny Keems behavior, even the others who come to the office. His violent reactions are typically (I think) restricted to people attacking Wolfe or insulting him, and his instinctive reaction to so 'deal' with those who disrespect Wolfe I always saw as being a way he could express loyalty and love in that relationship. I think both of them are heavily conscripted/bound in the ways they can express respect or love for each other. (Not just by the time period, but also by Wolfe's Montenegrian background and Archie's old fashioned Midwest background.)
What I really want to know is what really happened when they met and realized they were perfect for each other as both boss/secretary, star/assistant, genius/admirer, pseudo-father/son, semi-ancient Greek style BFFs and/or heterosexual life partners. That would explain so much for me! I especially want to know if their early relationship dealt with Wolfe's relapses and whether they were more serious/upsetting than Archie shows. I would love to know how Archie changes people and how flattering/negative his characterization of them is. And of course, their reactions would be v. interesting. I also wonder if there's any exaggeration re: Archie and girls, or Wolfe's 'American' cultural credentials/behavior, same for Fritz etc.
You know I've always found it odd that Wolfe makes those comments about how strong Archie is. It's almost like a compliment plus some masculine reassurance-praise, imho. I've been thinking for a while about gender in Wolfe-- but in terms of what if Wolfe were a woman? Or if Archie were? I see Ina Garten as Wolfe in this case, but for Archie I don't know. Anyway all this made me think, women are so often praised for their beauty, figure etc--but to compliment a man usually focuses on different 'virtues' etc. I find it interesting that Wolfe says Archie spends too much on his clothes and doesn't seem to compliment his outfits but throws a fit at the purple shirts Lily gives Archie, and does compliment Archie's strength. It to me is perhaps also a way of complimenting Archie's looks/physicality/figure without going into territory that a Midwest Archie might find 'lavender'.
=) Anyway I found your thoughts v. interesting!! Thank you for the post!
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Date: 2010-06-19 07:46 pm (UTC)>>I am always surprised at how often Archie mentions how long he's lived with Wolfe, not only in narration but in his 'real life'. It really seems (to me) to belie his tough, Midwest masculine image--the fact that he always mentions 'living with you in this house' instead of something less personal, like 'working for you' etc leads me to think this.
"Nero Wolfe gets a lot of credit for his amazing vocabulary, but it must’ve rubbed off on Archie as well. Archie Goodwin is confident and cocky, especially with Wolfe complimenting his satisfactory performance at least twice in this story, and brash and sarcastic. While his language is more colorful and slangy than Wolfe’s, he uses his fair share of $20 words too."
>>I always find it interesting how Archie can pull out a really impressive metaphor or word. It makes you wonder just how much he actually knows--in one early book I think he mentions laying on a couch downstairs and reading, but later on does not mention this. I almost wonder if he's censoring himself after the first few books. I also find it interesting that it's so central to his identity as a person that he always mentions what his leather case (from Wolfe) is, and how it's so fancy. You would think that type of 'fancy' gift would embarrass him, or that he would be embarrassed showing others that Wolfe gave him it and he likes it, but how Archie acts always defys my expectations.
In this vein I am always shocked that Wolfe and Archie are so progressive, actually. I see a lack of sexism and racism as opposed to other literature and movies from the early era (30s-40s etc). I think maybe that's part of Archie's desire to reassure the reader and himself that he's a 'real' man, because overt/cruel sexism/racism/violence isn't really too much a part of how he expresses himself. I've seen most Wolfeans (if that's the word) say that Archie's a thug, especially early on, but I've never felt this way. I personally think the different in cultural and temporal milieu is simply different from our own. Now if Archie lived today I think he would act progressively for our time period, but in his own period I see him as an exemplar man.
I think Stout set him up to be one, actually. I think many of the other characters' behaviors often end up showing Archie in a good light, ie. Orrie's womanizing, Johnny Keems behavior, even the others who come to the office. His violent reactions are typically (I think) restricted to people attacking Wolfe or insulting him, and his instinctive reaction to so 'deal' with those who disrespect Wolfe I always saw as being a way he could express loyalty and love in that relationship. I think both of them are heavily conscripted/bound in the ways they can express respect or love for each other. (Not just by the time period, but also by Wolfe's Montenegrian background and Archie's old fashioned Midwest background.)
What I really want to know is what really happened when they met and realized they were perfect for each other as both boss/secretary, star/assistant, genius/admirer, pseudo-father/son, semi-ancient Greek style BFFs and/or heterosexual life partners. That would explain so much for me! I especially want to know if their early relationship dealt with Wolfe's relapses and whether they were more serious/upsetting than Archie shows. I would love to know how Archie changes people and how flattering/negative his characterization of them is. And of course, their reactions would be v. interesting. I also wonder if there's any exaggeration re: Archie and girls, or Wolfe's 'American' cultural credentials/behavior, same for Fritz etc.
You know I've always found it odd that Wolfe makes those comments about how strong Archie is. It's almost like a compliment plus some masculine reassurance-praise, imho. I've been thinking for a while about gender in Wolfe-- but in terms of what if Wolfe were a woman? Or if Archie were? I see Ina Garten as Wolfe in this case, but for Archie I don't know. Anyway all this made me think, women are so often praised for their beauty, figure etc--but to compliment a man usually focuses on different 'virtues' etc. I find it interesting that Wolfe says Archie spends too much on his clothes and doesn't seem to compliment his outfits but throws a fit at the purple shirts Lily gives Archie, and does compliment Archie's strength. It to me is perhaps also a way of complimenting Archie's looks/physicality/figure without going into territory that a Midwest Archie might find 'lavender'.
=) Anyway I found your thoughts v. interesting!! Thank you for the post!